"The state will always have an excuse for why the recipients of its force deserved it." You should put that on t-shirts, mugs, etc. I'd buy at least one of each.
Nice thoughtful piece, as usual. And it’s true that troubled imperfect people who break the law but are otherwise non-violent do not deserve to be gunned down. Period. But the real issue is of course race. These days, the example I use to remind people about the inequitable application of “Justice” and use of force is the guy who broke into Speaker Pelosi’s home in SF. To recap this white guy breaks into the freakin Speaker of the House’s home,threatens to kill her, beats her husband with a hammer in FRONT of the police who then apprehend him without a taser being launched or a shot being fired- even though he was clearly violent. There can’t be doubt in anyone’s mind that if this were a person of color, they’d be dead. Or more recently the 84yo racist who thought it was ok to try to kill a black man for knocking on his door. Fortunately, he didn’t kill him and was arrested and hopefully will spend the rest of his years behind bars. And he will definitely deserve it.
Interesting essay, but the comparison breaks down in a significant manner. King was a victim of police abuse, while Neely is a victim of vigilantism.
Both are symptoms of a society in decay, but the rise of vigilantism should be particularly alarming in an era where states are eliminating all barriers to gun possession.
“... it’s so foolish and perilous to let the state (or the mob) decide who deserves rights and who doesn’t. Neither the state, nor the mob, will ever conclude that you deserve justice if it sets its eye upon you.”
People on the right, people on the left, and those between must all take this to heart.
I wonder, if the record and privileges allowed to police officers in using violence against citizens have made it such that using force against police is considered reasonable self-defense? Can you stand your ground against someone known to use unreasonable levels of force for the circumstances?
God. Kelly Thomas. Hadn't thought about him in so many years. What they did to that poor man was beyond criminal. If there is someone or something that judges our time on earth after we die, those bastards will pay a heavy price.
I'm sorry to say, I don't believe that our justice system will be fixed. As long as the wealthy can do what they like, why should politicians try to create a fair system for the rest of us?
I feel like you made too much of the word "deserve". I have to believe most people mean that NOBODY deserves to be beaten like that when they say that HE didn't deserve to be beaten like that. Still, it was an interesting and informative essay, so thank you for sharing it.
“It’s been edited for my general illiteracy and to remove dead links.”
I’ve read this before, but read over the phrase “dishing out desserts” a dozen times trying to figure out if it was wrong or clever wordplay (potentially unintentional clever word play). The phrase is “just deserts” even though it is routinely misstated as “just desserts.” But if you’re dishing them out like ice cream, maybe it is desserts in this case.
Its says something about our society when a bunch of keyboard warriors complain about how an ex-marine inadvertently killed a hostile and dangerous felon on a subway car devoid of police officers. Leave it the liberal readers to Monday morning quarter back a very dangerous situation. And I say liberal because it is those people who dont want anything done unless its done perfectly and serves all people at all times - aka impossible. Same reason why you have to spend 1.5million dollars to build a toilet stall in San Francisco. It is a truly a luxury of the out of touch and over educated to sit back and judge those who take action in dangerous situations. It is my firm belief that the victims of a crime have the right to defend themselves, period. Now you can’t expect a bystander to have a gun, taser, and handcuffs like a trained police officer, so they must use what they have - their hands. What that marine did was very difficult and not ideal - because there should have been someone with the proper law enforcement tools closer by. But we can’t blame him and the other bystander that helped him in doing the best they could do in a dangerous situation.
The attitudes of the comments I have read thus far foster the same attitude that lets women get raped in public on a subway with no one intervening. God forbid they do an improper chokehold, so lets just be good citizens and let the woman be attacked. Better safe than be judged by the mid wit Monday morning keyboard quarterbacks.
I hadn't considered the unhelpful framing of "deserving" or "not deserving" violence, whether from the State or a vigilante. Our rights are inviolable regardless of how anyone feels about the circumstances of our lives. Thank for this, Ken.
“He didn’t deserve that, says the other side, unwittingly lending support to the implicit argument that there are some who do”
The supposed Liberals in Hollywood play into this all the time, every time a movie or TV Show has a cop threatening a perp with the idea he’ll be raped in prison, if tells us that a prison system where it’s known rapes happen is A-OK and that it’s a useful tool for cops to use to get information to solve crimes
"The state will always have an excuse for why the recipients of its force deserved it." You should put that on t-shirts, mugs, etc. I'd buy at least one of each.
Nice thoughtful piece, as usual. And it’s true that troubled imperfect people who break the law but are otherwise non-violent do not deserve to be gunned down. Period. But the real issue is of course race. These days, the example I use to remind people about the inequitable application of “Justice” and use of force is the guy who broke into Speaker Pelosi’s home in SF. To recap this white guy breaks into the freakin Speaker of the House’s home,threatens to kill her, beats her husband with a hammer in FRONT of the police who then apprehend him without a taser being launched or a shot being fired- even though he was clearly violent. There can’t be doubt in anyone’s mind that if this were a person of color, they’d be dead. Or more recently the 84yo racist who thought it was ok to try to kill a black man for knocking on his door. Fortunately, he didn’t kill him and was arrested and hopefully will spend the rest of his years behind bars. And he will definitely deserve it.
Interesting essay, but the comparison breaks down in a significant manner. King was a victim of police abuse, while Neely is a victim of vigilantism.
Both are symptoms of a society in decay, but the rise of vigilantism should be particularly alarming in an era where states are eliminating all barriers to gun possession.
“... it’s so foolish and perilous to let the state (or the mob) decide who deserves rights and who doesn’t. Neither the state, nor the mob, will ever conclude that you deserve justice if it sets its eye upon you.”
People on the right, people on the left, and those between must all take this to heart.
"It grieves me how little has changed" <-- this, every day. Thanks, Ken.
I wonder, if the record and privileges allowed to police officers in using violence against citizens have made it such that using force against police is considered reasonable self-defense? Can you stand your ground against someone known to use unreasonable levels of force for the circumstances?
Apparently this past week, shoplifting at Walgreens in San Francisco is a capital offense, sentence executed by a rent-a-cop. It goes on. https://missionlocal.org/2023/05/walgreens-banko-brown-michael-earl-wayne-anthony-video/
God. Kelly Thomas. Hadn't thought about him in so many years. What they did to that poor man was beyond criminal. If there is someone or something that judges our time on earth after we die, those bastards will pay a heavy price.
I'm sorry to say, I don't believe that our justice system will be fixed. As long as the wealthy can do what they like, why should politicians try to create a fair system for the rest of us?
A great quote from a great movie. For those who don't know, now you know.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AFJm9xbFzc0
I feel like you made too much of the word "deserve". I have to believe most people mean that NOBODY deserves to be beaten like that when they say that HE didn't deserve to be beaten like that. Still, it was an interesting and informative essay, so thank you for sharing it.
“It’s been edited for my general illiteracy and to remove dead links.”
I’ve read this before, but read over the phrase “dishing out desserts” a dozen times trying to figure out if it was wrong or clever wordplay (potentially unintentional clever word play). The phrase is “just deserts” even though it is routinely misstated as “just desserts.” But if you’re dishing them out like ice cream, maybe it is desserts in this case.
Its says something about our society when a bunch of keyboard warriors complain about how an ex-marine inadvertently killed a hostile and dangerous felon on a subway car devoid of police officers. Leave it the liberal readers to Monday morning quarter back a very dangerous situation. And I say liberal because it is those people who dont want anything done unless its done perfectly and serves all people at all times - aka impossible. Same reason why you have to spend 1.5million dollars to build a toilet stall in San Francisco. It is a truly a luxury of the out of touch and over educated to sit back and judge those who take action in dangerous situations. It is my firm belief that the victims of a crime have the right to defend themselves, period. Now you can’t expect a bystander to have a gun, taser, and handcuffs like a trained police officer, so they must use what they have - their hands. What that marine did was very difficult and not ideal - because there should have been someone with the proper law enforcement tools closer by. But we can’t blame him and the other bystander that helped him in doing the best they could do in a dangerous situation.
The attitudes of the comments I have read thus far foster the same attitude that lets women get raped in public on a subway with no one intervening. God forbid they do an improper chokehold, so lets just be good citizens and let the woman be attacked. Better safe than be judged by the mid wit Monday morning keyboard quarterbacks.
I hadn't considered the unhelpful framing of "deserving" or "not deserving" violence, whether from the State or a vigilante. Our rights are inviolable regardless of how anyone feels about the circumstances of our lives. Thank for this, Ken.
“He didn’t deserve that, says the other side, unwittingly lending support to the implicit argument that there are some who do”
The supposed Liberals in Hollywood play into this all the time, every time a movie or TV Show has a cop threatening a perp with the idea he’ll be raped in prison, if tells us that a prison system where it’s known rapes happen is A-OK and that it’s a useful tool for cops to use to get information to solve crimes
Appreciate the article, thanks Ken.