If only there was a body of peer reviewed, published research on the topic so that we didn't have to take the word of a single genital reconstruction surgeon. Oh, wait, we do!
You can ignore the author as a biased source, but do browse the excellent collection of citations. And best of all, it's actual research and not a carefully couched, wishy-washy opinion in a video!
"Here's a TED Talk by a pediatric endocrinologist about a 12 year old raised as trans from birth, started on blockers and estrogen at 10, and sterile at 12. So why not surgery?"
Jesus Christ, my man, is there some part of "peer-reviewed, published research" that is difficult for you? Because a Ted Talk isn't it, either. And neither of the anecdotes you posted contradict that there is body of research that demonstrates both the ability to orgasm AND the ability to conceive post-transition.
I understand most people do not have a strong scientific background and are lacking in even relatively basic skills related to finding and parsing scientific and clinical information because the education system in this country does a frankly terrible job of teaching scientific literacy. But even with that deficiency, you should be able to see that a Ted Talk, regardless of how much it supports your personal beliefs, is not a source for anything other than the speaker's opinions. And you should at the very least understand that a TedX Talk isn't even a Ted Talk, but a local pay-for-play offshoot of the original Ted Series where the only criteria for being a speaker is the willingness to pay a sponsorship fee.
So, would you care to try again, but with real sources? Or do you want to keep throwing out opinions and anecdotes and pretending they mean something?
Google "appeal to authority." Hint: a resume is not the same a peer-reviewed, published research. This really should not be a difficult concept, and I'm not sure why you're struggling to understand that regardless of how impressive a person delivering an anecdote may be, that doesn't change the fact that an anecdote is not research.
So, again, do you actually have any research to back up your beliefs or are you just going to continue to link to videos of people giving their opinion?
Jesus Christ, dude, do you really not understand what "published, peer-reviewed research" is? You have one there, which is far better than you have been doing. I guess we can celebrate that you're 1 for 3 on this one, as opposed to batting a solid zero in every other one of your comments. The fact that you're getting frustrated because you don't understand why your poor-quality anecdotes aren't being taken seriously is just icing on the "I don't actually understand any of this but trans people are gross and I don't like them so here's some links I found on the Louder With Crowder website" cake.
So let's take a look at the one piece of actual published data you've provided. It's not actually research, so much as it's a meta analysis and review, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt given that you appear to have limited experience with professional science. There are a number of ways to evaluate the quality of published research, from quick and dirty estimates of quality down through to parsing out the research itself. The first thing we look at, though it's falling out of fashion, is impact factor: how often does the journal get cited. It's not remotely conclusive, but it gives you a place to start, asking with publisher ranking. For both of these, The Journal of Sex and Martial Therapy gives us a responding meh. It's a mediocre (leaning low) impact factor journal published by a very mediocre hit or miss publisher.
But that's judging a book but it's cover, right? Let's look at the actual "research" presented. How about looking at available charts and data? Well, that should be quick, as there are only two, one with N=54 and one with N=40. Both from studies that have been discredited and supplanted by much better ones. Which is great, because I hate doing research review on Sunday evenings! The rest of it goes about the same as your arguments: they point out a small-sample study, say "look how small their sample is!" and then refute it with either a case or an N<100 rebuttal. They conveniently ignore many of them much larger studies (see my link above) because refuting an N=700 piece of research is much harder with a single case. So it's a cherry-picked (not systematic) review of available literature. Which in science terminology we call "bullshit for gullible idiots by people pushing an agenda."
And as a final note, I think we can all stop freaking out about how trans therapies are "gay conversion" given that well over half of transgender people identify as gay, bi, or pan. The most common relationship for trans people is a same-sex couple. No one is turning little gay boys into little straight girls. At least not with any level of success.
P.S. And don't think I didn't catch that little bit of antisemitism at the end! Nice to know the kind of person I was speaking to.
I covered your "final note" up thread. I guess you've forgotten. For the rest, I've given enough data. I'm not trying to convince you of anything. But I'll quote Ken White:
"I get the feeling a lot of people you don’t agree with are deemed intellectually lazy and dishonest.
We can’t all be you, I guess." Also, I'm a Jew, and it was Herzl who said "The anti-Semites will become our most dependable friends, the anti-Semitic countries our allies." I disagree. Her also worshipped Cecil Rhodes as a "visionary" and begged for his support. "It is not in your accustomed line; it doesn't involve Africa, but a piece of Asia Minor, not Englishmen, but Jews.... How, then, do I happen to turn to you, since this is an out-of-the-way matter for you? How indeed? Because it is something colonial."
Candy Darling and Marsha P. Johnson never denied being biologically male. And they didn't need the state—big daddy—to affirm that they were on the other side side of a binary. Trannies aren't women, but they are what they are. And no "TERF" has ever tried to take that away.
But putting rapists in women's prison because they now "identify" as female,
and raising male children as trans from infancy because you really wanted a daughter, and sterilizing them with cross sex hormones, is a bit much. And also the hatred of homosexuality is obscene
Susie Green took her TEDx talk down and someone reposted it.
You can imagine how a child who witnessed the fights might try to resolve the conflict.
I'm not writing this for you but for anyone else reading it. That's the only reason I've argued with you at all.
"I've been up all night alone, wondering about my identity. Trying to look for an explanation for living this strange, stylized sexuality. Realization cuts feeling off. I try to explain my identity as being a male who has assumed the attitudes and somewhat the emotions of a female. I don't know what role to play." Candy Darling
Marci Bowers: "Every single child who was blocked at Tanner Stage Two has never experienced orgasm, I mean it’s really about zero."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K5V_gH01uII
I'm done with this.
If only there was a body of peer reviewed, published research on the topic so that we didn't have to take the word of a single genital reconstruction surgeon. Oh, wait, we do!
https://genderanalysis.net/2022/04/abigail-shrier-and-surgeon-marci-bowers-falsely-claimed-trans-girls-on-puberty-blockers-lack-sexual-response-after-vaginoplasty/
You can ignore the author as a biased source, but do browse the excellent collection of citations. And best of all, it's actual research and not a carefully couched, wishy-washy opinion in a video!
Bowers is the President of WPATH. But you knew that. https://www.wpath.org/about/EC-BOD
Repeating myself (see above)
"Here's a TED Talk by a pediatric endocrinologist about a 12 year old raised as trans from birth, started on blockers and estrogen at 10, and sterile at 12. So why not surgery?"
https://www.ted.com/talks/tandy_aye_is_the_surgical_world_ready_for_adolescent_gender_surgery?language=en
Jesus Christ, my man, is there some part of "peer-reviewed, published research" that is difficult for you? Because a Ted Talk isn't it, either. And neither of the anecdotes you posted contradict that there is body of research that demonstrates both the ability to orgasm AND the ability to conceive post-transition.
I understand most people do not have a strong scientific background and are lacking in even relatively basic skills related to finding and parsing scientific and clinical information because the education system in this country does a frankly terrible job of teaching scientific literacy. But even with that deficiency, you should be able to see that a Ted Talk, regardless of how much it supports your personal beliefs, is not a source for anything other than the speaker's opinions. And you should at the very least understand that a TedX Talk isn't even a Ted Talk, but a local pay-for-play offshoot of the original Ted Series where the only criteria for being a speaker is the willingness to pay a sponsorship fee.
So, would you care to try again, but with real sources? Or do you want to keep throwing out opinions and anecdotes and pretending they mean something?
https://profiles.stanford.edu/tandy-aye
Clinical Focus
Endocrinology/Diabetes, Pediatric
Pediatric Endocrinology
Healthcare of Gender Nonconforming Youth
Type 1 Diabetes
Academic Appointments
Professor - University Medical Line, Pediatrics - Endocrinology and Diabetes
Professor - University Medical Line (By courtesy), Psychiatry and Behavioral Sciences - Interdisciplinary Brain Sciences
Member, Maternal & Child Health Research Institute (MCHRI)
Administrative Appointments
MEDICAL DIRECTOR, STANFORD PEDIATRIC AND ADOLESCENT GENDER CLINIC (2019 - PRESENT)
Fellowship Program Director, Pediatric Endocrinology and Diabetes (2011 - Present)
Boards, Advisory Committees, Professional Organizations
Board of Directors, Pediatric Endocrine Society (2021 - Present)
Member, Pediatric Endocrine Society Workforce Action Team (2019 - Present)
Committee Chair, Pediatric Endocrine Society Training Council (2017 - 2020)
Secretary/Treasurer, Council of Pediatric Subspecialties (2017 - 2020)
Member, World Professional Association for Transgender Health (2016 - Present)
All Boards, Advisory Committees, Professional Organizations (10)
Google "appeal to authority." Hint: a resume is not the same a peer-reviewed, published research. This really should not be a difficult concept, and I'm not sure why you're struggling to understand that regardless of how impressive a person delivering an anecdote may be, that doesn't change the fact that an anecdote is not research.
So, again, do you actually have any research to back up your beliefs or are you just going to continue to link to videos of people giving their opinion?
The Dutch Protocol for Juvenile Transsexuals: Origins and Evidence
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/0092623X.2022.2121238
The Cass Review
https://cass.independent-review.uk/publications/
Swedish National Board of Health and Welfare: Care of children and adolescents with gender dysphoria
https://www.socialstyrelsen.se/globalassets/sharepoint-dokument/artikelkatalog/kunskapsstod/2022-3-7799.pdf
I've said it before. This is like arguing with Zionists.
Jesus Christ, dude, do you really not understand what "published, peer-reviewed research" is? You have one there, which is far better than you have been doing. I guess we can celebrate that you're 1 for 3 on this one, as opposed to batting a solid zero in every other one of your comments. The fact that you're getting frustrated because you don't understand why your poor-quality anecdotes aren't being taken seriously is just icing on the "I don't actually understand any of this but trans people are gross and I don't like them so here's some links I found on the Louder With Crowder website" cake.
So let's take a look at the one piece of actual published data you've provided. It's not actually research, so much as it's a meta analysis and review, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt given that you appear to have limited experience with professional science. There are a number of ways to evaluate the quality of published research, from quick and dirty estimates of quality down through to parsing out the research itself. The first thing we look at, though it's falling out of fashion, is impact factor: how often does the journal get cited. It's not remotely conclusive, but it gives you a place to start, asking with publisher ranking. For both of these, The Journal of Sex and Martial Therapy gives us a responding meh. It's a mediocre (leaning low) impact factor journal published by a very mediocre hit or miss publisher.
But that's judging a book but it's cover, right? Let's look at the actual "research" presented. How about looking at available charts and data? Well, that should be quick, as there are only two, one with N=54 and one with N=40. Both from studies that have been discredited and supplanted by much better ones. Which is great, because I hate doing research review on Sunday evenings! The rest of it goes about the same as your arguments: they point out a small-sample study, say "look how small their sample is!" and then refute it with either a case or an N<100 rebuttal. They conveniently ignore many of them much larger studies (see my link above) because refuting an N=700 piece of research is much harder with a single case. So it's a cherry-picked (not systematic) review of available literature. Which in science terminology we call "bullshit for gullible idiots by people pushing an agenda."
And as a final note, I think we can all stop freaking out about how trans therapies are "gay conversion" given that well over half of transgender people identify as gay, bi, or pan. The most common relationship for trans people is a same-sex couple. No one is turning little gay boys into little straight girls. At least not with any level of success.
P.S. And don't think I didn't catch that little bit of antisemitism at the end! Nice to know the kind of person I was speaking to.
I covered your "final note" up thread. I guess you've forgotten. For the rest, I've given enough data. I'm not trying to convince you of anything. But I'll quote Ken White:
"I get the feeling a lot of people you don’t agree with are deemed intellectually lazy and dishonest.
We can’t all be you, I guess." Also, I'm a Jew, and it was Herzl who said "The anti-Semites will become our most dependable friends, the anti-Semitic countries our allies." I disagree. Her also worshipped Cecil Rhodes as a "visionary" and begged for his support. "It is not in your accustomed line; it doesn't involve Africa, but a piece of Asia Minor, not Englishmen, but Jews.... How, then, do I happen to turn to you, since this is an out-of-the-way matter for you? How indeed? Because it is something colonial."
I'm tired of all of this.
Well, just so long as we know that you consider one very mediocre review to be enough data, because that's actually all of the data you provided.
But you go get some sleep. Owning the libs with anecdotes must truly be incredibly difficult for you.
I remember the good old days, when the trannies owned the libs, just by existing. Now they've all gone straight.
https://www.queerty.com/exclusive-transgender-icon-jayne-county-is-fed-up-with-being-banned-and-censored-20140605
Candy Darling and Marsha P. Johnson never denied being biologically male. And they didn't need the state—big daddy—to affirm that they were on the other side side of a binary. Trannies aren't women, but they are what they are. And no "TERF" has ever tried to take that away.
But putting rapists in women's prison because they now "identify" as female,
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-63823420
and raising male children as trans from infancy because you really wanted a daughter, and sterilizing them with cross sex hormones, is a bit much. And also the hatred of homosexuality is obscene
Susie Green took her TEDx talk down and someone reposted it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QsQVEhHfEGU
You can imagine how a child who witnessed the fights might try to resolve the conflict.
I'm not writing this for you but for anyone else reading it. That's the only reason I've argued with you at all.
"I've been up all night alone, wondering about my identity. Trying to look for an explanation for living this strange, stylized sexuality. Realization cuts feeling off. I try to explain my identity as being a male who has assumed the attitudes and somewhat the emotions of a female. I don't know what role to play." Candy Darling
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XPgGjUSEWss
I own the libs every day of my life